Counseling is one of the five domains in the new 2024 CACREP standards and is now a required part of the doctoral internship. However, ideas about how to train and assess doctoral-level counseling skills remain unclear. This presentation explores the fascinating conversation and results of an IRB-approved focus group that sought to define “advanced skills” for doctoral students in counselor education, their value at the doctoral level, and their implications for professional identity as counselor educators.